My Earliest Kinders

This may be one of the first chapters of this Kinder family history that you read, but be warned - it is also probably the chapter which is the most speculative!  This having been said - read on and enjoy.

James Kinder and Mary Ramsbottom
The author, with a lot of help from Rhonda Newberry, began the search for my Kinder family initially in Australia.  Not surprising since this is where I live!  It was relatively easy to link both my great-grandfather, Enoch, and Rhonda's great-grandfather, Cyrus, with their parents, James Kinder and Mary Ramsbottom who emigrated to Australia in 1841.  The Victorian Registry of births, marriages and deaths provided all the necessary certificates.

With some IGI and parish film searching, it was established that James was very likely to be the son of James Kinder and Mary Rider who were married at Manchester Cathedral in 1810 and lived in Dukinfield, England.  When Rhonda obtained a copy of Mary Rider's Last Will, this linkage was confirmed.  Mary specifically refers to her son, James, "now in Australia" and further, to another son, Cyrus, who had also left for Australia before she died.  This last reference to another son Cyrus, confirmed the link between the Kinders who descended from James and who remained predominantly in Melbourne for 160 years and the Kinders who descended from Cyrus who settled and largely remained in Bendigo in country Victoria.

Beginning with James and Mary Rider (James b1779), their other children have been traced and some of their descendants have been found to be still living in the Tameside area east of Manchester, England where James and Mary lived for most of their lives - see John b1810, Sarah b1810, Joseph b 1812, James b1814, Ann b1817 and Cyrus b1824.

But now, the question is - who were the ancestors of James Kinder who married Mary Rider?

Let's jump back a couple of generations........

John Kinder and Betty Prestwich
John Kinder married Betty Prestwich at Manchester Cathedral on 13 April 1751.  John was a Whitster (a bleacher of cloth) living in the Gorton area of Lancashire, just south-east of Manchester[1,2]. 


from the Manchester Cathedral parish register

In June 1751, a son, James, was baptised at St James, Gorton with his father, John, described as a Whitster of Gorton.  In June 1753 another son John was also baptised in Gorton and again, John was described as before[3].

At St James, Birch-In-Rusholme, five more children were baptised - Samuel in 1756, Mary in 1758, Matthew in 1761, Joseph in 1763 and Elizabeth in 1765[5].  St James, Birch-In-Rusholme was a Unitarian Church and is just a short distance west of Gorton but why the change of church?  John is referred to as a Crofter of Gorton.

Then at St Thomas, Heaton-Norris - Alice in 1769, Samuel in 1772 and Martha in 1774[6].  In the cases of Alice and Samuel, John is referred to as John Kinder of Gorton.  In the case of Martha, he is John Kinder of Levenshulme.  These appear to be very likely matches.

The Stockport Biography Index, September 2003, contains an entry for "John Kinder, Whitster, Levenhulme, 1781"[4].

John and Betty both died in 1817[7].  John was buried on 28 December, aged 86 years and Betty was buried on 14 March 1817 also noted as aged 86 years.  They were buried in Gorton, probably in the Brookfields Unitarian churchyard.  Both were noted as having lived in nearby Levenshulme.  


from St James, Gorton parish register, 1817

from St James, Gorton parish register, 1817

These death entries put their births as ca 1731.  I have also found a baptism for a Betty Prestwich on 16 December 1732 in the Manchester Cathedral.  Her father was Richard Prestwich - likely the same Betty[1].


from the Manchester Cathedral parish records 1732


The family tree looks like this:-




But what of John Kinder's parents?
At this point John b1731 is my oldest confirmed Kinder ancestor but I have not yet found his birth or baptism details so I don't know his parents.  1731 is a very likely birth year since his death was in late December 1817 and his aged was 86, so unless he was born in in the last 3 days of December, he was born in 1731.  Looking at the naming pattern of his children and grandchildren, it would be fair to guess his father's name was James. But this is my current brick wall.  There are plenty of John Kinder's around in Lancashire, adjoining Cheshire and even Derbyshire but none match this birth year ±1.  One of my cousins has nominated a John Kinder born in 1725 in Hayfield, Derbyshire as our John, but I find the gap of 6 years in birth to be too great for the Hayfield John to be the our Gorton/Levenshulme John.  Derbyshire has many romantic Kinder connections but my connection to Derbyshire will have to wait for now.


Children of John Kinder and Betty Prestwich


1.  James Kinder
James was baptised on 11 June 1751 at St James, Gorton, Lancashire, England[3].   Click here to read more.


from the St James, Gorton parish register


2.  John Kinder
John was baptised on 19 June 1753 at St James, Gorton[3].


from St James Gorton parish register


3.  Samuel Kinder
Samuel was baptised 3 October 1756 at St James, Birch In Rusholme[2].  He died before January 1772.


4.  Mary Kinder
Betty was baptised on 15 October 1758 at St James, Birch In Rusholme[2].  She died and was buried on 11 July 1777 in the graveyard of St James, Gorton[3].


from St James Gorton parish register


5.  Matthew Kinder
Matthew was baptised on 8 March 1761 at St James, Birch In Rusholme[2].  Matthew married Elizabeth (Betty) Chetham on 4 June 1780 at Manchester Cathedral[1].


from Manchester Cathedral parish register

Matthew worked as a Whitster and as a Weaver (probably followed his father into the trades) and lived in Levenshulm.

Betty was baptised on 11 June 1759 at St Clement in Chorlton cum Hardy, Lancashire.  Her father was James Chetham[15].


from St Clement, Chorlton cum Hardy parish register


Betty was buried on 17 June 1806 at St James, Didsbury[9].


from St James, Didsbury parish register


Matthew and Betty Chetham had, at least, three children:-

5.1  John Kinder was baptised on 5 January 1781 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris[6].  He died aged less than 1 year and was buried on 13 December 1781[6].

5.2  Alice Kinder was baptised on 28 Oct 1782 at St James, Gorton[3].

5.3  Samuel Kinder was baptised on 2 January 1785 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris[6].


6.  Joseph Kinder
Joseph was born on 1 April 1763 and baptised on 17 April 1763 at St James, Birch In Rusholme[10,2].  Joseph married Mary Garner on 9 December 1783 at Manchester Cathedral[1].


from Manchester Cathedral parish register

Their Banns were read on 23 and 30 November and 7 December 1783.  At the time of his marriage, Joseph lived in Levenshulme and worked as a Whitster.

Mary Garner came from Withington, Lancashire.  Her parents were Owen Garner and Mary Alcock and she was baptised on 18 March 1763 at St James, Didsbury, Lancashire[9].


from St James, Didsbury parish register

Joseph died on 2 February 1837 in Withington and was buried on 5 February 1837 at St James, Didsbury[10,9].  Mary Garner died on 13 March 1833 in Withingtonand was buried at St James, Didsbury on 17 March[10,9]. 


from St James, Didsbury parish register


from St James, Didsbury parish register

At St James, Didsbury, a monumental inscription reads:-
Sacred to the memory of Joseph Kinder of Withington who died February 2nd 1837 aged 73 years
Mary his wife who died March 13th 1833 aged 70 years
Also Samuel their son who died March 2nd 1874 aged 69 years
Also Mary wife of Samuel Kinder who died October 24th 1872 aged 68 years
Courtesy of Judith Sellers


It appears that they lived between Levenshilm and Withington all their lives.  At one point in 1821 they were forcebly removed from Withington and despatched back to Levenshulme to be taken care of by the Overseer of the Poor:-

Lancashire Record Office, Ref:  QSP/2782/74

Removal Order

To the Overseers of the Poor of the Township of Withington in the County of Lancaster

Whereas you have made Complaint unto us whose Names are hereunto set and seals affixed, being two of His Majesty's Justices of the Peace and Quorum, in and for the said County, that Joseph Kinder and Mary his wife and Martha aged 22 yrs, Maria aged 12 yrs and John aged 3 yrs their children have come to inhabit in your said Township, not having gained a legal Settlement there, nor having produced a Certificate owning them to be settled elsewhere, and that the said Joseph Kinder and Mary his wife and their said children have become actually chargeable to your said Township;  We, the said Justices, upon due Proof made hereof, upon Oath, and likewise upon due Consideration had of the Premises, do adjudge the same to be true;  and we do likewise adjudge that the lawful Settlement of them the said Joseph Kinder and Mary his wife and their said children is in the Township; Parish; or Place of Levenshulme in the County of Lancaster.  We do therefore require you, the said Overseers of the Poor, or some or one of you, to convey the said Joseph Kinder and Mary his wife and their said children from and out of your said Township, to the said Township, Parish or Place of Levenshulme and them together with this our Order, or a true Copy thereof, to deliver to the Overseers of the Poor there, who are also hereby required to receive and provide for them according to Law.

Given under our Hands and Seals the first day of March in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred and Twenty One

Signed:  J Norris, Rbt Fielden.
Courtesy of Judith Sellers


Joseph and Mary Garner had, at least, 13 children probably all born in Withington[9]:-

5.1   Alice Kinder was baptised on 5 September 1784 at St James, Didsbury. She lived only for 2 days and was buried on 8 September at St James, Didsbury.

5.2  Owen Kinder was baptised on 30 October 1785 at St James, Didsbury.  He died and was buried on 22 February 1786 at St James, Didsbury.

5.3  John Kinder was baptised on 14 January 1787 at St James, Didsbury.  He died and was buried on 3 May 1809 at St James, Didsbury.

5.4  Owen Kinder was baptised on 28 June 1789 at St James, Didsbury.  He died and was buried on 28 July 1794 at St James, Didsbury.

5.5  James Kinder was baptised on 7 August 1791 at St James, Didsbury was buried on 25 July 1794 at St James, Didsbury.

5.6  Mary Kinder was baptised on 27 June 1793 at St James, Didsbury.  Mary died and was buried on 4 August 1793 at St James, Didsbury.

5.7  Mary Kinder was baptised on 17 August 1794 at St James, Didsbury.

5.8  Betty Kinder was baptised on 19 March 1797 at St James, Didsbury.

5.9  Martha Kinder was born on 28 June 1798 and baptised on 22 July 1798 at St James, Didsbury.  She married Jonathan Watts.  She died and was buried on 9 July 1880 at St Paul, Withington.

5.10  Joseph Kinder was baptised on 26 October 1800 at St James, Didsbury.  Joseph was buried on 27 August 1802 at St James, Didsbury.

5.11  Joseph Kinder was baptised on 24 October 1802 at St James, Didsbury.

5.12  Samuel Kinder was baptised on 31 March 1805 at St James, Didsbury.  He married Mary Britt.  He died in 1874 in Macclesfield and was buried at St James, Didsbury.

5.13  Maria Kinder was baptised on 14 May 1809 at St James, Didsbury.  She married John Langford.  She died in 1879 in Chorlton, Lancashire.


7.  Elizabeth Kinder
Elizabeth was baptised on 16 June 1765 at St James, Birch In Rusholme[2].


8.  Alice Kinder
Alice Kinder was baptised on 17 Aug 1769 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris[6].


from St Thomas, Heaton Norris parish register


On 23 September 1790, Alice married John Jagger at Manchester Cathedral[1].  John's surname is variously spelled as Jager, Jagger and Jaggar.  I think Jagger is correct in this case.


from Manchester Cathedral parish register

Alice and John had 3 children but Alice passed away only 3 months after the birth of their 3rd child.  Such a common occurrence.


from St James, Gorton parish register


Alice and John Jagger had three children[6,3]:-

8.1  Thomas Jagger was baptised on 12 July 1791 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.

8.2  John Jagger was baptised on 9 October 1793 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.  He died aged 1½ years and was buried on 19 May 1795 at St James, Gorton.

8.3  Sarah Jagger was baptised on 24 August 1794 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.  She died aged just 9 months and was buried on 1 May 1795 at St James, Gorton.


9.  Samuel Kinder
Samuel was baptised on 19 January 1772 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris[6].


from St Thomas, Heaton Norris parish register

Samuel worked as a Whitster in Levenshulme and married Mary Hopwood on 25 May 1795 at Manchester Cathedral[1].  Their Banns were read on 5, 12 and 19 May.


from Manchester Cathedral parish register


Samuel died aged 66 years and was buried on 14 January 1838 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.  His burial record noted that he lived at Reddish.


from St Thomas, Heaton Norris parish register


Samuel and Mary Hopwood had, at least, 9 children[6]:-

9.1  Sarah Hopwood was baptised on 19 May 1793 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.  It was noted that she was illegitimate and her father was Samuel Kinder.  She died aged just 14 months and was buried on 17 July 1794 at St Thomas.  Her burial entry states her name as Kinder.

9.2  Martha Kinder was born ca 1796.

9.3  Mary Kinder was born ca 1798.

9.4  Ann Kinder was baptised on 6 July 1800 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.

9.5  Elizabeth Kinder was baptised on 30 January 1803 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.

9.6  Alice Kinder was baptised on 31 August 1806 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.

9.7  Sam Kinder was baptised on 5 February 1809 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.

9.8  Sarah Kinder was baptised on 22 August 1813 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.

9.9  John Kinder was baptised on 24 March 1816 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris.


10.  Martha Kinder
Martha was baptised on 26 Jun 1774 at St Thomas, Heaton Norris[6].


from St Thomas, Heaton Norris parish register





Churches


St Thomas, Heaton Norris
St James, Gorton
 Gorton Main Road with Brookfield Unitarian Church at left



Locations


Yates, 1749




References:
  1. Manchester Cathedral parish registers
  2. International Genealogy Index (http://www.familysearch.org).
  3. St James, Gorton parish register.
  4. Stockport Biography Index (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/Borough/Heritage/GenealogicalDatabase).
  5. St James, Birch-In-Rusholme parish register
  6. St Thomas, Heaton-Norris parish register
  7. Gorton Unitarian Church, parish register, courtesy of Rhonda Newberry.
  8. Gorton Unitarian Church graveyard records, courtesy of Rhonda Newberry.
  9. St James, Didsbury parish register
  10. Book of Common Prayer - owned by Owen Garner, extracts provided by Judith Sellers
  11. Carol Woods email 26 Mar 2002.
  12. Cheshire & Lancashire - Wills and Administrations 1821-1825, Lancashire Record Office.
  13. Mormon Church Film of Brookfields Unitarian Church, Gorton parish register - burials.
  14. www.hayfield.uk.net
  15. St Clement, Chorlton cum Hardy parish register